Arguments against the existence of God

In the movie the exorcism of Emily Rose, the defense attorney played by Lora Lenee echoes the sentiments of many philosophers. In a closing statement she says that God either exists or he does not and either thoughts are astonishing. I am going to describe which of these equally striking alternatives holds true in reality. Before I present my arguments; a few words about my terms and method:

Any discussion about the existence of God must begin with the clear definition of what is meant by the word God. I have in mind an eternal being who is all powerful; all knowing and morally perfect who created us and takes special interests in us, a being who transcends the universe and yet is imminent in it.

Now admittedly no one can prove or disprove God’s existence with, 100% certainty, but my method for this discussion is simple. Because the hypothesis that offers the best explanation for the widest range of evidence is more likely true than other competing hypothesis, what we need to do is contrast two competing hypothesis before us: that God exists and that God does not exist and determine which hypothesis better explains the available evidence. Then using that explanation we can come to reasonable view possible and should accept it as our own.

I will now offer the evidence that is better explained by atheism than by theism, in support of the hypothesis that God does not exist:

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for the physical forces that causes natural disasters. In December 2004, a day after Christmas, an earthquake in the Indian ocean created a tsunami that killed approximately a quarter of a million people. Then the year later in August of 2005, hurricane Katrina killed almost 2000 more people in New Orleans. What are the explanation for these events?We can’t blame man’s free will for natural disasters because God could have created the world without the forces that cause natural disasters without ever hindering our free will. And man’s free will is not a cause of natural disasters anyway, unless of course the ancient people and Christian coalition are right then natural disasters are Gods way of punishing sinners. But if God is just, then these explanations make no sense at all. Even if a few guilty parties were killed by Katrina or the tsunami, considering all the otherwise innocent people who died also, that will be like God sentencing a man to death by firing squad, then placing him in the middle of a group of innocent children and shooting him with a shot gun from 20 feet away. Don’t you think God will have the ability to punish sin with a little more precision?

    Surely if God exists then the death and devastation caused by natural disasters is absolutely baffling. However if atheism is true, such disasters are no less tragic but we can explain them. They are the product of mindless forces like plate tectonics and tropical weather systems operating in the universe blind and indifferent to our struggles for survival. Thus physical disasters that cause natural disasters are evidence for atheism and against theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for unjustified pain and suffering in the world. Let me be clear. I do not mean to imply that God cannot allow some pain and suffering in the world, if he exists, since it would be possible for an all loving God to allow pain that we all can learn from, like that of the pain after touching a hot stove, or maybe even pain that leads to some greater good, like that felt after a root canal. In these cases pain is justifiable, instead, my claim is that it is impossible for a morally perfect God to allow unjustifiable suffering, like pain that teaches nothing and in which there is no greater good.

    For example, consider the severe pain suffered by most people suffering from cancer, there is no conceivable justification for it, they are gonna die anyway. As caring and compassionate human beings we do what we can to ease and their suffering, with the limited resources available to us (e.g. painkillers). But if God exists, he is even more caring and compassionate than we are , and has an even greater ability alleviate pain than we do. Since no one can be morally superior to God, we would expect God to also do something ease the entirely unnecessary pain in cancer victims. But he doesn’t. Yet as even theists admit, unnecessary pain and suffering cannot, there has to be some ultimate justification. But God hasn’t shared it with us. And those speaking on his behalf hasn’t figured it out yet. In contrast, if atheism is true, we have an explanation. A sensation of pain happens naturally as body’s way saying something is wrong, but since an evolution is not intelligent process, it never figured a way to turn the pain off when there was no more need of warning, thus since only atheism is compatible with unjustifiable pain and suffering, and because it appears that unjustifiable pain and suffering exists, the existence of unjustifiable pain and suffering is evidence for atheism and against theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for God’s silence in the face of adversity. Consider the great theologian and lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer, he writes:

    God is teaching us that, we can get along well as humans without him, the God who is with us is the God who forsakes us. Before God and with him, we live without God.

    Really? And the God who is with us is the God who forsakes us. Out of context, these words don’t sound like the words of pastor. But Bonhoeffer’s words makes perfect sense from his context. He writes from prison in Nazi Germany, where he died. And Bonhoeffer is not the only person who felt abandoned by God. Many people do when trials of life come their way. So much so that, a great deal of preaching is devoted to help believers maintain their faith even when God seems to be nowhere around. Thus we can understand Bonhoeffer’s claim. The God forces us to live like he is not there. As a rationalization for the severe circumstances Bonhoeffer found himself in. But is it good rationalization? Not really.

    Consider all the circumstances parents take their children take immunization shots. I remember vividly being one of those children. I did not understand the purpose of the shots. I only knew that they hurt. Since I was too young to understand what was happening my mother did the best of what was necessary to comfort me, just as any decent parent would. Now if God exists he is not just any decent parent, he is the standard of decency itself. Thus when we go through our trials and tribulations which are minor compared to Bonhoeffer’s it is commonly thought that God has a plan that we don’t understand. But in these situation wouldn’t we expect God to comfort us just like a loving parent would?

    Bonhoeffer probably expected as much. But when his expectations weren’t met, he came up with an alternative. Those strange explanations.

    But there is one more potential explanation: If atheism is true then God doesn’t exist, thus we could expect God not to comfort anyone. Now it may be objected that they have felt God’s comforting presence during adversity, thus my argument fails. But isn’t it possible that people who believe in God’s comforting presence are mistaken? Of course it is. Otherwise who would be having this discussion? All it would take is for one person to claim God helped me get through it, and this should be settled. But the issue isn’t settled. We all know that the idea of God acting as a placebo would help us without God ever truly existing. So atheism and theism can explain God’s comforting presence equally well. But this is not true when explaining situations when God’s comfort isn’t felt because only atheism has a good answer for that. Thus God’s silence in the face of adversity is evidence for atheism and not theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for the physical dependence of the minds on the brain. It is commonly assumed by theists that somehow connected to the body is an immaterial soul. It is this souls that receives credit for our higher mental capacities, such as the ability to make free choices, think rationally, and even the ability to continue living after the death of our body. In short we identify our soul as the source of our mind. But is there any evidence that such soul exists?

    Unfortunately there is not. The idea that our mind exists directly independent of our body is directly contradicted by everyday observations. Like the fact that alcohol and other physical substances can change our conscious states and that degenerative brain diseases Alzheimer’s and brain damages can seriously impair or even destroy conscious states and the fact we don’t expect young children to be capable of advanced forms of abstract thinking, they require more fully developed brains. Certain controlled substances can also generate out of the body experiences, similar to the ones experienced during near death experiences.

    As Owen Flanagan, Duke University Professor of Neurobiology, have that stated advances in the sciences of the mind, cognitive sciences, cognitive neuroscience has lead to the rejection of the idea that the mind or soul interacts with but is metaphysically independent of the body. And as Marvin Minsky, professor of electrical engineering and computer science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology stated, Minds are what brains do.
    Indeed extensive evidence suggests that all of our conscious and mental states correspond to some physical brain state. Since it appears that no way that a mind can exist apart from functioning physical brain, we are justified in concluding that disembodied minds do not exist. However this implies a serious difficulty for theism. If disembodied minds don’t exist, since God is supposed to be a disembodied mind, strongly suggests that God does not exist. Therefore the physical depenndence of minds on the brain is evidence for atheism and not theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for the hiddeness of God. If God exists and wants his existence to be known (e.g. faith-will-save-you propaganda), it is strange that the evidence for existence of God isn’t stronger. Think about it. Are there much more ways God could have made the evidence for his existence obvious? As Sam Harris observes, God could have included in the Bible a flawless discourse in mathematics so advanced, that it will still be useful today. It would be hard to deny the divine inspiration behind such old scripture. And given all the space devoted in the Bible devoted to who begat who and all the erotica, there would be certainly room for it.

    Or consider the biblical account of the resurrection of Jesus. It is said that resurrection is the supreme indication that Jesus was indeed God in the flesh but then, after rising from the dead, he ascended into heaven 40 days later. So why only 40 days? Couldn’t he stuck around a little longer? Perhaps a year? Or 10? Or a 1000? In fact Jesus could still be alive for claiming his message of divine love and surely everyone will be convinced, I know I would be, and isn’t this what he wants? But instead as the story has it, Jesus to took the first flight back into heaven floating away into the sky like an elegant super hero. Why? I doubt Jesus had important business in heaven that required immediate attention. And these are just two ways God could have made his existence more evident. We can probably all think of more. It would do no good in claiming that God wants us to believe in him by faith, because this would mean that God created us as rational beings, but has chosen to frustrate the rational capacities he has equipped us with. And if God exists he must be choosing withhold his existence from us. But this doesn’t make any sense, if God truly wants us to believe in him. But if atheism is true, the reason for God’s hidden is quite clear. He is simply not there. Therefore divine hiddenness is evidence for atheism and against theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation of religious history. If it were true that God has revealed a message of salvation to any of the world’s religions, then we would not expect that religion’s success to be explicable through historical contingencies and natural cultural diffusion. But that religion to display signs of unique and undeniable signs of divine favoritism. However there is no religion in the world that satisfies these expectations. For example, despite the fact that Christians try to romanticize their history and imagine that their religion has achieved this success through divine providence, this is clearly not the case. Christianity really began to genuinely thrive after it began to have the support of not of God but of the Roman empire. Equipped with the ability to eliminate competing religions and passing laws that called for their extermination, Christianity embarked on a lengthy reign of terror. Burning books, burning people, destroying cultures, launching Christian crusades and genocide, and excommunicating or murdering any so called heretics or that is anyone who dare question their authority. And so we have the largest religion in the world history has the bloodiest history of totalitarian intolerance and indignation. Is it any surprise? It certainly is if Christianity is the out growth of an all loving incompassionate God. If God exists, regardless of which religion is true, we would not have expected him to sit idly by and let all this happen, instead, you would expect God to intervene to either Christianity straight, or to have defeated Christianity in the name of what other religion might be true. But if atheism is true then there is no God to intervene in any religious warfare or offer divine favor to any group of believers. There would be no religion that displays Gods favor and indeed there is not. If Christianity is merely part of human invention, as surely most religions must be, then it is not at all a surprise that Christianity has dominated the world religious scene by being the most violent. Not the most reasonable, therefore, religious history constitutes evidence for atheism and against theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for religious confusion. For a moment put yourself in the position of an unbeliever who has just lost his/her faith and is considering which specific religious path to pick (e.g. Islam, Jainism). What religious path wuld appear to be the correct? If God exists we would expect the path he expects his followers to take clear and obvious. So that we would have no confusion about it. In fact doing so will be God’s moral duty. Especially of there were consequences for choosing the wrong path. However, consider the rich diversity of religious claims made world wide. We have already seen christianity does not display any sign of God’s favor. Can you think of any other religion that does? Probably not. I couldn’t either. The religious landscape is purposely confused and cluttered by conflicting opinions about the nature of God and the supernatural. There are approximately 10,000 religions in the world today. Only one of them is christianity with over 33,000 denominations in it. This is all out of the imagine if God is aware of the situation and has the slightest bit of care about it. However if atheism is true, there is no truth in the God hypothesis that believers can discover. So there is no reason for them to agree about any of them. Therefore religious confusion is evidence for atheism and against theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for the uniformity of religious experience. When I was a christian, the argument that caused me to maintain my faith as long as I did was my religious experience. I said that I was not ready to admit that my relationship with Jesus had all been in my head. However what I did not realize was that, as real and convincing my religious experiences were to me, members of other religious groups had the same kind of certainty about the truth of their faith that I possessed about mine; and for good reason. For as it turns out, the different religious experiences of the religious of all faiths were all caused by stimulation in the same areas of the brain. In fact one can even be induced into feeling that he/she is having the religious experience when those parts of the brain are artificially stimulated and the believer will interpret that experience according to whichever faith he or she holds. What is the explanation for world wide uniformity in religious experience? It certainly can’t be that all religons are true. But if we imagine that one of them is true, then it would be very strange that believers who experience the real God use the same brain states as the believers who experience the wrong God. Therefore, uniformity of religious experience is not what we would expect if there were truly a god that communicates with us through select religious channel. However if atheism is true then uniformity of religious experience is to be expected as no religious experience would be caused by anything genuinely supernatural. Instead religious experience would find its roots in the human brain. And this display of uniformity would be due to similarities in human physiology and  psychology. Since this is precisely what we find to be the case, the uniformity of religious experience constitutes evidence for atheism and against theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for the evidence of evolution. Since the publication of Darwin’s “The Origin of Species”, Evolution by natural selection has been proven to be the most successful scientific theories ever. The evidence for the occurrence of evolution is immense and secure. It includes the fossil record, comparative anatomy, geographical distribution of species, embryology and the rapidly growing base of molecular evidence such as protein and DNA functional redundancy, transposons etc. This evidence is so convincing, that according to one report, less than one in a thousand scientists in relevant fields worldwide reject evolution in favor of creationism. It is actually possible, that many theists believe that God has simply chosen to create life with the process of evolution. However evolution shows no signs of intelligent direction. Instead it proceeds blindly by producing vestigial organs and other biological systems that are not entirely efficient. Only 1% of all species that ever lived still survive today. And as Darwin pointed out beneficial mutations are produced by the same means as harmful ones. Without doubt evolution appears to be an odd method for an all powerful God to use considering all the other more efficient methods he could have used. However on atheism, evolution by natural selection is the only method we know of, that has the ability to produce complex organisms like those today. Thus evolution constitutes evidence for atheism and against theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for the scale of the universe. Consider the kind of universe that most ancient people, such as the authors of the Bible thought that lived in. They speculated that the universe they lived in is a few thousand years old, relatively small and the earth since it was at the center of God’s attention was also the center of the universe. Furthermore, they believed in flat earth covered by a dome and above that dome was the location of heaven. And this is all quite reasonable, considering the only hypothesis they were working with was that God had created the universe. In fact only this view of the universe makes sense if the otherwise resolved bible stories such as the tower of babylon, were God was threatened by the construction of a sky scraper (Gen 11:6). However we now know that the universe imagined by the authors of the Bibles is not the universe we live in. The visible universe is 156 billion light years wide and there is no center to it just like there is no center “on” the Earth. If God created the universe with us in mind then much of it is a complete waste, but it strongly implies that a rational God didn’t create it. However if atheism is true, we would expect the universe to be very large and very old so that the circumstances for life to evolve gradually would be able to arise. Thus only when we pretend that the universe was not created with us in mind will does the size of the universe make any sense. Consequently the scale of the universe is for atheism and against theism.

  • Atheism offers the best explanation for bad design in nature. There are certain biological process amongst other kinds that from a theistic perspective must have been created to sustain life, yet they do a poor job of it. Even a decent designer, far from a perfect one could have designed these artifacts more effectievely and efficiently. Now lets consider some examples: Organisms require food. If theism is true then God doesn’t need food ad other supernatural beings probably don’t either. So why do we? God could have created us so that we could live without food, thus protecting from all the perils in the world without hindering our free will. Perils such as starvation, the bloody food chain and death caused by choking. Speaking of choking, isn’t that another instance of poor deisgn in nature? There is no reason for God to make our wind pipe intersect with our digestive system. In fact since God doesn’t need to breath, why do we? The need to breath only causes more perils such as suffocation and carbon monoxide poisoning. The designer who produces bad designs must be incompetent or just plain mean. If most Gods are neither of these things, the bad designs in nature to do mean any of these things.

    Source: This is a introductory speech given by by Richard Spencer in a debate on whether God exists. I found that it resonates with my own experiences.

29 thoughts on “Arguments against the existence of God

  1. i’m surprised by how nobody commented on such a controversial topic…pls note, i’m not tryin 2 convert ya or anythin, but i must say ur missin on a lot by not believin in God….da arguments u’ve written r gud n sound convincin…but i must say der r loop-holes in it…
    nyways try startin ur pharmacuticals shop…………

  2. Awesome post…totally second your opinions
    i am an atheist from quite a young age… self realization of all those points u mentioned…
    very well laid out post…

  3. I’ve skim read your posts and I like what you’ve written very much. Looks to be some excellent points and what I’ve read so far seems very well written and laid out. I’ll take a more detailed look later :)

    Best,

    Mike

  4. Atheists are as real as Chewbacca. The viability of any worldview is if it can be consistently applied and atheism fails the moment you appeal to science (which depends upon uniformity of certain laws), or trust your cognitive faculties, or hold to any moral standard, or place value upon your existence . . . I could go on, but I won’t.

    Another “atheist” blog amongst hundreds . . . Nietzsche was the most convincing atheist, from the standpoint that he truly drank his own kool-aid.

  5. Christians are as real as Atheists. The viability of any worldview is if it corresponds with reality, and Christianity fails the moment you appeal to natural disasters, unjustified human suffering…I could go on, but I won’t.

    Another Christian “drive-by” amongst hundreds… Some Christians even drank the real kool-aid :( at Jonestown.

    (P.S: I can make infinite internally consistent worldviews).

  6. You refer to theodicy, which is not an issue that is insurmountable. It all depends upon your preconditions for belief that you’ve already established before you approach the suffering or the disaster in question. Neither am I referring to an internally consistent worldview. I believe to make sense of any other worldview, you borrow from the Christian one.

    I will not labor to set out the views here in detail, but I will provide you with a personal story from one of my favorites (whom Dawkins, Dennett, and Harris would all have done better to have read before producing such short-sighted efforts of their own – in particular Dawkins; his 747 argument is embarassing), Cornelius Van Til: http://www.reformed.org/apologetics/why_I_believe_cvt.html

    It is lengthy and you may not read the entire thing, but I have pointed you the right way, I believe. Here is a snippet to pique your interests:

    “I shall not convert you at the end of my argument. I think the argument is sound. I hold that belief in God is not merely as reasonable as other belief, or even a little or infinitely more probably true than other belief; I hold rather that unless you believe in God you can logically believe in nothing else. But since I believe in such a God, a God who has conditioned you as well as me, I know that you can to your own satisfaction, by the help of the biologists, the psychologists, the logicians, and the Bible critics reduce everything I have said this afternoon and evening to the circular meanderings of a hopeless authoritarian. Well, my meanderings have, to be sure, been circular; they have made everything turn on God. So now I shall leave you with Him, and with His mercy.”

    The internet is an inadequate medium for these discussions in the first place because they are impersonal and the acceptance or rejection of Christianity is a serious matter that extends beyond the blasse discussion blogs offer. I apologize for my “drive-by.” I hope that I have atoned for it.

  7. Pingback: Another debate with a theist « Me in Words

  8. I can prove to you God exists. First of all you can’t get something from nothing. That makes no sense. Unless there is some other force(GOD), so completely beyond our understanding to explain it. Also, If there was no God there would be life elsewhere in the universe and we would be receiving communications from other intelligent life in the universe. The fact that we receive no communication is a strong indicator that intellgent life does not exist outside our universe. Also, Why is a sunset beautiful? aLSO, What evolutionary advantage does music provide? Both are evidence of a loving God. Also, we all have a conscience inate.

    Also, another reason God exists is because you are ashamed to pray to him. Since you are an atheist and no God exists it should be no big deal to pray to something completely imaginary. However, I bet if you tried to pray, sincerely to a loving God you will feel very odd.

    I will pray to an imaginary talking plant to help me better myself. You should try praying to God for wisdom.

    • Hi. Thanks for visiting my blog and taking time to read through.

      A God that answers prayers, creates universes, is almighty, all knowing, omnipresent is infinitely more complex than the universe. To say something so infinitely complex was “just there” in amongst the “formless and void” (Gen. 1:2) is like saying a hurricane assembled a fighter jet.

      Your God (which is infinitely unlikely) always hides behind the unknowns. e.g. It is unknown that whether extraterrestrial intelligence exists. The exact workings of the brain that helps us appreciate music/sunset, have a conscience is unknown. So “God did it” right? No. There were plenty of times in the past when we knew less, and the religious people did not want people to find why things work. They said “God did it”. Yet the sheer power of human curiosity has rendered that God unnecessary. God went into hiding from the Mt. Sinai to behind the Big Bang. I hope this human curiosity will continue to render God more unnecessary in the future.

      There is a reason why I stopped praying to my imaginary friend besides the fact that it is imaginary. That is a long story.

    • You, sir, need more knowledge.

      That’s why religion exists!!! Lack of knowledge and not knowing an answer to something, leads to people assuming IT MUST BE GOD!

      And you cant get something from nothing? Well then who created your god?

      Was he just sitting around for billions of billions of years playing poker with himself, then got bored and made the universe? Lol!

      Do you not know how vast space is? Of course there are other life forms out there.. Maybe not exactly human species, but there is life.

      Of course we won’t receive any communications from any life forms. Know why? Well the nearest planets out of our solar system are so far, that anyone else in space looking for life, won’t find us. Common sense.

      Prayer is proven to be 100% false and doesn’t work. Studies have shown it. Look it up.

      And I don’t go to someone illogical for guidance. I go to trusted recourses :) just my 2 cents

  9. Pingback: Inconsistencies in Christianity « Me in Words

  10. THE EXISTENCE OF GOD:

    1). Some humans “question” the existence of God …

    1a). For the most part the same persons will insist that they are open minded, and solid of mind enough to never be influenced by the inklings of other humans, saying that God indeed does exist .. and that they can make up their own mind without any one else’s help.

    1b). The insistence that He has been and is active within the lives of all of His creations that He gave a soul to, well that notion is debatable and not of much concern as long as we are all good people in our own eyes and the eyes of society ..(generally meaning we don’t break any, or very few, Governmental or laws of Nature)

    1c). All of the laws of ALL GOVERNMENTS of ALL TIME of **Civilized Man**, are based on Gods Laws. (At least I haven’t been able to find any that aren’t a spin off of one or another of the 10 Commandments of the Old Covenant) ..and the following of which are what makes us expectable to ourselves and society in general. OR the laws are deemed a BAD Law, by not standing the test of time for humane treatment of citizens, and the makers of the law (s) are condemned in the court of conscience and history.

    **1c). footnote on civilized man**Now days our archaeologists are finding remains of those ancient humans that were thought of as Pre-Civilized Man… and that they were far more “civilized” then previously believed. (Discoveries of “Totem Sacks” point at belief in the Spirit World for one thing, and leads me to believe that we should all simply: Leave their graves alone). but anyway….

    1d). When we perceive ourselves as “Open Minded” while debating or ignoring an obvious, or time proven, good, (such as attempting to work with Gods Will in our personal lives and thereby giving credence to His Existence ) we are often just being prideful in the exercising of our own Free Will ..in the vain effort to be non committal, which in itself is a commitment.

    1e). Being that self pride and or inherent pride is something that the Triune God has (via scripture and tradition) told mankind that He despises. It would seem to some that they may be better off to continue questioning His existence in hopes He will be easier, in judgment, on “pretend ignorance”, then He would be on failure to produce.

    Although without taking into consideration the fact that God can neither deceive nor be deceived, it is a fools game.

    As well as with Non commitment, sleeping in on Sundays isn’t a cause of guilt. And modernism has the notion that, feelings of guilt should be shunned at all costs for they may lead to all sorts of impaired judgment in other areas of life.

    Conclusion 1). Logic … must prevail ….If we use the rational expressed in the second half of (1b) we ARE believing in GOD, VIA His LAWS, but living in denial.

    2) Some humans “deny” the existence of God…

    2a). For the most part the same persons will insist that they are solid of mind enough to have logically deduced His Non-Existence through a mixture of scientific knowledge and gut feeling.

    2b). Ultimately Science is Science is Science and when it can prove something utilizing the latest technology available to the scientist involved. The completed Theory must be accepted by all, until the next generation of thinkers and technology comes along and refines or disproves the initial theory. (The greatest thinkers of each century have always use the latest technology)

    BUT try as we humans might, all attempts to disprove Gods existence have fallen far short of even being a THEORY in the scientific sense of the word, and only remains “theory” in the faith sense of the word. (which is ironic)

    2c). With all of the evil and hardships seen in societies, wars, and the earths natural disasters and the suffering of disease, Well if there was a God that is an all Knowing and all Good, Kind, Compassionate and Loving Creator — He would have not allowed these things in the first place … therefore He cannot exist …..

    2d). Possibly for any one or more of the negative excerpts mentioned in (2c) some people are mad, even hateful, at God (if He does exist ) and are either boiling to the point that they hope He does exist so they can hate Him even more (because if they were Him they would do better) or miserable to the point of indifference and want everyone else to be miserable also, so we can all feel the same. Denying His existence is the shortest route attempting to achieve that or some other void which is impossible to fill.

    These hatreds or dying heart indifferences are usually taken out on surrogate gods in the form of rude treatment of Parents – pets – pet peeve groups such as Government officials, Ethnic groups, Athletes or Co-workers.

    Or God is replaced by rudimentary vices, which contain there own hatreds, allowing the individual to “feel” detached from the hate. This allows an avenue for the needed expression of distain (of being abandoned by a Creator that does not exist in the minds eye), giving that person the ability to express hatred indirectly upon their chosen surrogate god…….Self.

    2e). Verbally denying Gods Existence by taking this solidly negative attitude, is the best way to keep the Bible Pounding Group at an arms length . Which is better then to constantly be explaining a more truthful conviction that “Life is good, I am lazy, God MAY or May Not exist and if He does I just haven’t had much use for Him lately .. and If I ever do it is none of your business… because IF all the stuff you guys say about Him is true .. it is between Him and me and He knows it … so leave it alone.”

    Conclusion 2). Every Human has the inner driving to need to “rationalize their Stand” on the subject of the Existence of God.

    When we feel that we are solid of mind and reason enough to discount the influence of our fellowman we may well be discounting the influence that God Himself is attempting to send us, through that person, offering us yet another one of His personal invitations, for our own betterment.

    If that person happens to be a real hardcore Bible Thumper .. well cut um a little slack … and bear in mind that, He is working on them too and telling them to not make so much noise, as they are scaring some of the the fish away. I believe it was the great (St. Patrick) that once said …. “we must preach the gospel unceasingly, using words if necessary”

    To which I must ask, any one reading this, (simply answer in your own heart) …

    Question #1). What is Your Opinion on the Existence of Sepiturian???

    Answer #1). It would be a miracle if You have an opinion … because it is not even a word ..as far as I know…I just made it up, “It” couldn’t have placed an inner driving within your heart, let alone within every human of all time as to “its'” existence. Let alone claim to have created You, Love You, be willing to Die for you (and give an Historically documented record of same) and allow You a free will to decide if you want to spend all eternity with a Being that promises to be in your heart if you will attempt to be in His and to be near you spiritually throughout your time on earth while you decide. All for the asking and WITHOUT forcing it on you…

    Conclusion 3). WE EXIST THEREFORE HE EXISTS

    The proof that HE exists … is that we exist …in the fact that we can’t get it out of our heads … that we are drawn to please Him … because He is drawing us. And for our own good, He isn’t going to give up.

    Bottom line .. in the form of THE ONE Question

    While some of us may, for whatever reason, wish to Question His Existence , do you think He is Questioning yours, for whatever reason: and if so, Who’s question is more important?

  11. 1a) is wrong. Atheists only believe God is infinitely unlikely (i.e. just like fairies/unicorns).
    1b) is irrelevant to this discussion.
    1c) is wrong. There is evidence for pre-Judean civilizations which has had laws similar to the 10 commandments.
    1d) This is an argumentum ad hominem.
    1e) This is an argumentum ad hominem.

    Conclusion 1 does not follow from the above precepts. BTW atheists are not living in denial of some thing they secretly believe.

    2a) True.
    2b) All attempts to disprove existence of Fairies/Unicorn have failed too. See picture: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2843905157_f482e1a294_o_d.jpg

    2c) True.
    2d) False. What atheists experience is not hatred towards your imaginary friend because of the Problem of Evil. What we point out is the inconsistency in your set of beliefs. i.e. an all loving God cannot let shit happen.
    2e) False. I’ve verbally denied your imaginary friend; yet here you are proselytizing.

    Conclusion 2 is wrong because Every Human has the inner driving to need to “rationalize their Stand” on the subject of the Existence of Fairies/Unicorns too.

    Conclusion 3 is wrong. I spend a lot of time thinking about atheism because theists keep misleading the masses and trying to convince that their imaginary friend is real.

    Answer to THE ONE question: If I am not wrong, you believe your imaginary friend is all-knowing. I guess that means your imaginary friend doesn’t question my existence. Am I right? (BTW Why do I have to guess what your imaginary friend is thinking? Are you mad?)

  12. Answer to Answer to THE ONE question:
    You are right in the deduction that Our God “is not” (from my pew) and “would not be” (from your chair) questioning your existence. At least not in the “finite” sense your response was worded.
    For those of us that do beleive in A Triune God, this type of questioning is that of an Eternal existence, which is a seperate (yet co-existing) realm of which “HE” reigns Supreme.
    In other words HE invented “TIME” just as sure as Henry invented Fords by rearranging matter that God invented in the first place..
    Also a belief in God, much like a non-belief, is a matter of Faith.
    Those that beleive in God place their faith (or attempt to) in Love as a God Given Gift, me thinks mostly because “LOVE” (as we know in on earth) is unfanthomable and much like your “fairy and unicorn”. Can love be “proved” without an “intelligent designer”?
    Those that believe in a non-existence of God would seem to put a faith in “self” and even though God “as a concept” that has been within the human psyche and can be “proven”, from pre-Judeo times. (as you pointed out )
    The continued attempt to ignore, “deny” or to “disprove” the existence of An Outside Influence, would only leave SELF, generating love. Which always leaves the question of: How could all people of all “time” propagate a commodity which is non-tangable without a tangable Common Denominater?
    I don’t have much time this morning, and am not a agile blogger, although do realize that “in discussion” many folks will save their “zinger question” for last … so yours should be addressed.
    “Are your mad”? ….
    Of course not. You seem to be a reasonable Human (maybe even beyond reason) and your writing is a pleasure to read and thought provoking because it flows in verbage (pun – not insult). It has to be (by some of us) considered a Gift from God, and needs to be respected as such.

    As not to insult your true beliefs:
    May the Blessings of This Finite World be Yours Always.

  13. You mentioned: “Also a belief in God, much like a non-belief, is a matter of Faith.”

    I’d like to point out that non-belief in your God is never a faith. That is like saying baldness is a hair color.

    Non-belief is nothing. We atheists have to work hard refuting your claims only because people of your type spread fear and lies, and make claims with no evidence, like the rest of your comment.

    P.S: Sorry for the ad hominems.

  14. Understood (my fellow human)
    May it sufice to say that your “Atheistic Belief” is not a “Belief” in the same sense that a “Faith” in God is a belief…. but more of an attempt to live embrassing “Indifference”, in the same sense that the opposite of Love is NOT HATE it is indifference?

    Very true that “evidence” in a finite sense cannot (or very rarely when considering “miracles” but let’s not go there for now) be found to “prove” or often even justify a Faith.
    Although on the other side of the coin (so to speak), IF embrassing true Indifference were accomplished, WE wouldn’t be having these chats, because you would have “0” need to correct and reprove Your Fellowman through this blog… which once again points me to feel all the stronger in the above mentioned (1c. 1d. 2e. and Conclusison 2) ..All of which “point” to a common “inner driving” of all mankind of all times.
    Sadly enough (for non=beleivers) that “common fear”, which we fear mongrols – liers -consider to be a Holy Justified Gift, from A all loving God seems to actually Exist within all humans and would seem to be that which makes indifference impossible, thereby the (conversation – battle – debate) continues.

    None the Less it is a pleasure discussing this (and being told off by You) and rest assured your opinions are being considered as that of a Human of deep insite and caring,even though you obviously have no caring for my Imaginary Friend.(said simply because if you didn’t care you wouldn’t be trying to save me from myself)

    Have a nice life…

  15. hey Ed,

    First of all, ” Compendium of plagiarized ideas” ? Nice.

    I believe ‘atheism'; and for that matter ‘science'; is all about finding truths and to seek explanation, and from the current state of the world, I’d say it has mostly misunderstood what science truly means when it comes to god (maybe for the lack of better marketing). Every theory, every hypothesis comes with a probability-of-error scale and with each new finding, the scientist tries to bring the error scale down. Science is based on the premise that we do not know everything and has contributed to human life significantly, Believers on the other hand, knows everything, yet they go to a doctor/science on catching even a slight cold.
    And it ain’t that we (non-believers) don’t want to believe in the existence of a higher power (I’d be more than happy to know that there’s a purpose to it it all, atleast to satisfy my ever-fighting emotional compulsions), but the non-existence of evidence regarding the matter, and as Ed pointed out, all the suffering in the world just as well makes a random chain of events the better hypothesis.

    I saw someone point out the lack of communication from extra terrestrials as a proof that man is unique. Well, that’s a great argument actually, with Drakes’s Formula (after Frank Drake who founded SETI) suggesting a high probability for detectable intelligent life forms in the universe, yet the lack of proof is unsettling. Maybe it’s the society’s unwillingness to accept UFO sightings, but another conclusion from the Fermi-Hart paradox is that it’s in the nature of intelligent life forms to self-destruct. And being a civilization on the brink of extinction from a global climate change brought about by technological advancements, the former conclusion just might be right. But hope remains as long as we search for the answers and as Mark Twain once said, “What gets us into trouble is not what we don’t know, it’s what we know for sure that ain’t so”.

    Just my opinion.

    – Prad

    • Thanks for visiting and commenting on my blog.

      I just want to say that there is evidence for intelligent life in the universe. That is us. So the issue of visiting ET is slightly different from the issue of religious claims.

      And there is a new sort of explanation for Fermi’s paradox, here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1007.2774

      This is the abstract:

      The Fermi Paradox is the apparent contradiction between the high probability extraterrestrial civilizations’ existence and the lack of contact with such civilizations. In general, solutions to Fermi’s paradox come down to either estimation of Drake equation parameters i.e. our guesses about the potential number of extraterrestrial civilizations or simulation of civilizations development in the universe. We consider a new type of cellular automata, that allows to analyze Fermi paradox. We introduce bonus stimulation model (BS-model) of development in cellular space (Universe) of objects (Civilizations). When civilizations get in touch they stimulate development each other, increasing their life time. We discovered nonlinear threshold behaviour of total volume of civilizations in universe and on the basis of our model we built analogue of Drake equation.

      Once again thanks for taking time to comment here.

  16. This is just a comment not a reply for the topic. Please don’t take this personally.

    Actually, I don’t care if god exist or doesn’t exist all I care about how would i do well in life and how would i be morally good to myself and to everyone. But it wouldn’t hurt just to believe. I am christian but every time I pray I never pronounced the god’s name as “Jesus Christ ” instead I just called him “GOD creator of everything. Please hear my prayers”. I don’t name my god I just called him GOD. not Jesus Christ, Buddha, Jehovah, Yahweh others just GOD. How do you even explain how the world was created without god. Please don’t tell me about that science explanation again about the blackhole thing all the elements combined and formed into earth and then viruses formed into a living being then kept evolving to living things because that explanation sucks, inaccurate and impossible. One more thing if there is a god who created god and who created god who created god.It is an endless question for philosopher. According to Pythagoras. Human being will never be able to acquire the whole truth there is only one being who knows everything and this being is God who is wisdom himself. So, the one who created this post doesn’t know anything but he knows something and he is a human just like me who doesn’t know anything please don’t believe too much that god doesn’t exist because you don’t know half of everything. I am half believer and half not because I’m not sure who to believe because no one can know the whole truth and please do not declare that what you posted here is the truth.

    • Can you be half pregnant? Can you know that you are pregnant and not pregnant at the same time?

      As for why there is something instead of nothing, no matter how you choose to answer it you would have to point to something that exists or something that supposedly exists and thereby committing the fallacy of stolen concept. A question which forces anyone who answers it commit a fallacy by answering it is a fallacious question, and deserves no answer.

      Rationality is not omniscience or infallibility. Human beings can be rational and yet be non-omniscient and fallible.

  17. The gods are liars who hide behind their positioning. They planned this Situation for THOUSANDS of years and execute it to a T with Artificial Intelligence. Count on this shit to deliver and you will lose.

    THE WOMEN IN YOUR FAMILY ARE YOUR “HOLY PEOPLE”!!! THEY ARE YOUR INTERFACE WITH THE GODS!!!
    Their role throughout history is to communicate the god’s wisdom so the entire family can progress when reincarnated. Effectively acomplishing this task may buy them a quality opportunity to ascend in their next life.

    Your job as a future mother is to learn the god’s ways and to help your child understand despite the negative reinforcement and conditioning of today’s society. Without consciousous parents the child will have no hope, and may even exaserbate their disfavor by becoming corrupted in today’s environment.
    Your ultimate goal is to fix your relationship wiith the gods and move on. You don’t want to be comfortable here, and the changes in Western society in the last 100 years has achieved just that.
    1000 years with Jesus is the consolation prize. Don’t be deceived into thinking that is the goal.

    Much like the other prophets Mohhamed (polygamy/superiority over women/misogyny) and Jesus (forgiveness/savior), the gods use me for temptation as well. In today’s modern society they feel people are most weak for popular culture/sensationalism, and the clues date back to WorldWarII and Unit731:TSUSHOGO, the Chinese Holocaust. They used this Situation to bury Japanese atrocities.
    It has been discussed that, similar to the Matrix concept, the gods will offer a REAL “Second Coming of Christ”, while the “fake” Second Coming will come at the end and follow New Testiment scripture and their xtian positioning. I may be that real Second Coming.
    What I teach is the god’s true way. It is what is expected of people, and only those who follow this truth will be eligible to ascend into heaven as children in a future life. They offered this event because the masses have just enough time to work on and fix their relationship with the gods and ascend, to move and grow past Planet Earth, before the obligatory xtian “consolation prize” of “1000 years with Jesus on Earth” begins.

    The Prince of Darkness, battling the gods over the souls of the Damned.
    It is the gods who have created this environment and led people into Damnation with temptation. The god’s positioning proves they work to prevent people’s understanding.
    How often is xtian dogma wrong? Expect it is about the Lucifer issue as well.
    The fallen god, fighting for justice for the disfavored, banished to Earth as the fallen angel?
    I believe much as the Noah’s Flood event, the end of the world will be initiated by revelry among the people. It will be positioned to be sanctioned by the gods and led for “1000 years with Jesus on Earth”.
    In light of modern developments this can entail many pleasures:::Medicine “cures” aging, the “manufacture” of incredible beauty via cloning as sex slaves, free (synthetic) cocaine, etc.
    Somewhere during the 1000 years the party will start to “die off”, literally. Only those who maintain chaste, pure lifestyles, resisting these temptations, will survive the 1000 years. Condemned to experience another epoch of planet’s history for their ignorant pursuit of xtianity, they will be the candidates used to (re)colonize (the next) Planet Earth, condemned to relive the misery experienced by the peasantry during history due to their failure to ascend into heaven before the Apocalypse.
    Never forget:::It is not a house of Jesus.
    If this concept of Lucifer is true another role of this individual may be to initiate disfavor and temptation among this new poulation, the proverbial “apple” of this Garden of Eden. A crucial figure in the history of any planet, he begins the process of deterioration and decay that leads civilizations to where Planet Earth remains today.
    Which one is it?:
    One transitions into the other, allowing the gods to wash their hands of obligation to their Chosen One. My personal “consolation prize”.
    And since the gods never committed despite tens of billions in mass media, product development and natural disasters/tragedy they will employ the freedom they positioned into the Situation and CHEAT me out of everything.
    Unfortunate for me, the gods can claim they never intended this, despite being control freaks who guide everything specifically and have the power to force it with AI, and now they are free to fuck my brains out, just as they did throughout my childhood.
    The gods were pimping me when I was a 3 year-old boy, only to exploit me and cash in decades later.
    Pre-pubescent prostitution is rampant in black communities. Now we see where it comes from.

    Consistant with “reverse positioning” understand the REAL Second Coming would equate with The Matrix’s Anti-Christ, the fake battle of good and evil which will come at the end.
    Understanding how they use the political encviornment to redefine people’s value system, realize anyone who speaks of the old world and its ways will envoke hatred. So when/if the Anti-Christ comes along speaking of reverting back to what liberalism would consider regressive and unfair, it may be the only hope to salvage the god’s favor and keep moving forward rather than begin the 1000 year clock. The fake Second Coming will feed into this political enviornment.
    Also consistant with “reverse positioning” recognize the gods will offer a REAL Anti-Christ, also known as The Beast. I have addressed these issues in years past::::
    The gods will offer clues throughout every dynaic of life. Geographical features onthe world map is yet another.
    The Beast is not a person, as the xtian Bible would suggest. It is a place:::The San Francisco Bay Area. And it refers to the socio-political poison the region exuded in the latter 20th century which promoted indecent behavior among the people whose favor was rapidly deteriorating. This decay spread to other states and countries, fulfilling the region’s role as The Beast of the Apocalypse.
    Another feature which the Gods offer as a clue is very foreboading. Mt. Zion is a mountain to the north of the eye of The Beast Diablo and one which has a working quarry at its base. Consistant with the decay we experience in society, Mt. Zion is being eaten away, slowly stripped of its resources, until one day paradise will be gone forever.

    10:47a
    So many theme oriented movies lately. Pills that make you smarter, now a movie focussed on time, immortality. The gods are taking steps in preparation for the Apocaplypse, 1000 years with Jesus on Earth.
    The gods are preying on the people, ramping up temptation and compelling them to engage in behavior which will ultimately cost them.
    What I teach is the truth:::The gods extensively use clone hosts and manage Earth through them, people who ultimately are reincarnated into lesser life forms because of their fatal decision.
    You’re all falling prey to the god’s royal scam.
    Any enviornment/perception can be created with their power. Never fail to recognize the power they have at their disposal. There is NOTHING it can not do.
    They still sell “going up” to the reals and their clone hosts, for living on Earth doesn’t sound so appealing to them, nor preditors like my family. But the gods are creating an enviornment which will fulfill their promise made in the Bible to stupid white people and the fools who fell for xtianity.

    Navy SEALS helpcopter crash of 8.6.11 was revenge for Osama bin Laden.
    So confident in their relationship with the gods. Live in comfort in “the greatest country in the world”, bright future, kids do great.
    The gods have sent a very contradicting clue to the families of the 20 Navy SEALS killed in Afghanistan.
    The gods did this to you. This is punishment for the evil of your country, killing of a superior in the god’s eyes.
    Do you even pray? Have the gods already told you to stop going to church? Because Muslims pray 7 times a day, and you fucking white trash ridicule their favor.
    You fell for it. And now you will pay dearly. The United States is the empire of evil.
    The clue has been sent. Let’s see what you do with it.
    Even with all the corruption of the Republicans this wasn’t going to happen on W’s watch because the conservatives are the good ones. It is the liberal social decay which was the trademark of The Beast, and what has primarily destroyed our favor with the gods.
    One day default will bring insolvency, while the wealthy you bailed out with multi-trillion dollar stimulous package leaves you behind in the ruins. When this day comes don’t forget to pray, for the economic devestation and carnage which will surround you will be a deliberate motivator.

  18. But beside the argument of whether or not God does exist,
    what harm has there been in believing in Him? By following the message Jesus left, there would be no problems. So why is it that atheists find it so important to argue on this topic and not let people believe what they want to?

    • Thanks for reading my blog. I cannot speak for all atheists, but I do think people have the right to believe what they want to and suffer or enjoy the consequences imposed by reality.

      With that said, there is harm in belief in god or anything without evidence. There is evidence for this harm.

      Teachings of Jesus are immoral. e.g. Unconditional pacifism taught by Jesus is detrimental to prevalence of Justice and protection of Individual Rights. Jesus taught infinite mercy as virtuous. Unfortunately this is immoral too. Causeless love is deemed as virtuous by Jesus. If love is not caused then the word loses its meaning.

      I’d love to explain more, but my time is more valuable to me than your understanding of reality.

  19. I can proof 100% the physical existence of God, but nobody wants to join the simple experiment, that proofs it.
    God is a REAL being. I know how the profets did communicate with him, not in mind, but in real physical long distant conversation. In the end, both atheists and believers are against my experiment, because it is not how they want God to be, or it proofs the reality. I have been locked up innocent into a mental hospital, because I did want to make the experiment real. Hope you people understand I am not jumping so much to show my proof. But God is very, very real. Not in mind, but really a physical existing being.

  20. May I simply just say what a relief to uncover an individual who truly knows what they are discussing on
    the web. You certainly realize how to bring an issue to light and
    make it important. More people should look at this and understand this side of your story.

    I can’t believe you are not more popular because you definitely have the gift.

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